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Indo-European Norse

Odin / Awtin or Ahura Mazda (Sky father proof)

Below is a break down and quote I saw on a forum regarding Odin when one looks at sources from Persia. Recently I have seen a lot of misinformation in Indo-European and historical study groups which will only result in hurting people’s understanding.

This break down shows the same for my understanding both spiritually and scholarly. To which I state that Odin is the Sky Father for the Germanic / Norse Branch of the Indo-European cosmology and Ahura Mazda would be directly his Persian correlation.

I don’t know if I 100% agree with everything in the statement but it is much better than what is being passed around in some comparative groups.

“Q: Is Persian Allfather Awtin (Abtin) the same as Germanic Allfather Odin? Is Awtin’s wife Franak the same Odin’s wife Frigg? Is Awtin’s son/grandson Tur the same Odin’s son Thor?

I do not think so. Foremostly, if we wanted to investigate the possibility of their common origin in the ancient history based on the hypothesis of a linguistic correlation of their names, it would be not enough to compare the outward similarity of some of the contemporary variants of these names like Abtin and Odin or Tur and Thor, we would have to research the history and etymology of already their ancient antecedents Athwya and Wodanaz or Tuirya and Thunraz.

Regarding the possible parallels in their place within the respective religion and mythology, there is little to speak about since Abtin and Tur, unlike Odin and Thor, are not even gods or supernaturals in the Persian tradition. Since Abtin was neither a divine patriarch nor progenitor of all mankind, I wouldn’t really call him by a title like Allfather. Abtin is only narrated to be the ancestral figure of the major prehistoric noble house from which archaic heroes and kings descended and his place in the lineage of important later figures is his major role as he is not a too prominent character himself in the attested mythology. But since some Nordic royal houses claimed to descend from Odin, the role of an ancestral figure of a dynasty is basically the only shallow parallel between Abtin and Odin.

Tuirya was the name of a nation which was often kind of inimical to the Airya nation. This nation was said to be named after its original king Tuirya, similarly like the Airya nation after its king Airya and the Sairima nation after its king Sairima, these three kings were then identified as brothers and the sons of Thraetaona of the Athwya family. Tuirya, essentially the legendary first Tuiryan king who was jealous of his brother Airya, had very little to do with storms unlike the storm god Thunraz whose very name meant “thunder”, it actually is etymologically related to English thunder similarly like to Persian tondar or German Donner.

From the perspective of not etymological relatedness of the name but of parallels in the religio-mythological position, Odin as the supremely wise Æsiric divine patriarch, the king of the heaven and the earth and furnisher of the world, the vivifier of mankind and the pronouncer of magical incantations who lives in the divine realm connected to this world by the Bifrost bridge and guarded by two great wolves which is reached by the ghosts of the worthy deceased ones, who awaits the ultimate clash with the antagonistic supernatural forces and who uses talking ravens, could be argued to loosely correspond in these respects to Ahura Mazda, the supremely wise Ahuric divine Father and fashioner of the world, the king of the heaven and the earth, the creator of mankind and the pronouncer of sacred mantras who lives in the divine realm connected to this world by the Chinwad bridge and guarded by two great hounds which is reached by the ghosts of the worthy deceased ones, who awaits the ultimate clash with the demonic forces and uses talking Karshiptar bird (literally “Black-Winged”, from karshi- “black” and -ptar “wing”, presumed to be probably a supernatural raven of Ahura Mazda).

I named the particular points of resemblances because there are on the other hand also many dissimilarities in the other respects. Ahura Mazda is the prototypical all-perfect inherently immortal unique God while Odin is a much more limited god with more human-like life and also with sometimes kind of unpredictable character, such differences are of cource ensured by the overall theological discrepancies between Zoroastrianism and Old Norse religion. But although most of the theology differs to a great extent, the other aspects of the religious substrate have similarities and I do not think there was more Ahura Mazda-like figure than Odin in the attested Old Norse religion.

Quotes:

‘Thus therefore do we offer our liturgy to Ahura Mazda who made both the creatures and the order, who made both the good waters and the plants, who made both the celestial lights and the earth and all good things in between, to Him who made them in His greatness by His command and artistry and who is preeminent among all who foster the living creatures.’

(Avesta, Yasna 37:1–2)

‘O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! Who is he who brought the Religion of Mazda into the Vara which Yima made?’ Ahura Mazda answered: ‘It was the bird Karshiptar, O holy Zarathushtra!’

(Avesta, Videvdad 2:42)

‘Whosoever shall smite either a shepherd’s dog, or a house-dog, or a vagrant dog, or a trained dog, his soul when passing to the other world, shall fly howling louder and more sorely grieved than the sheep does in the lofty forest where the wolf ranges. No soul will come and meet his departing soul and help it, howling and grieved in the other world; nor will the dogs that keep the [Chinwad] bridge help his departing soul howling and grieved in the other world.

(Avesta, Videvdad 13:8–9)

Ahura Mazda answered: ‘When the man is dead, when his time is over, then the wicked, evil-doing Daevas cut off his eyesight. On the third night, when the dawn appears and brightens up, when Mithra, the hallowed celestial with beautiful weapons, reaches the all-happy mountains, and the sun is rising: ‘Then the fiend, named Vizaresha, O Spitama Zarathushtra, carries off in bonds the souls of the wicked Daeva-worshippers who live in sin. The soul enters the way made by passing time, and open both to the wicked and to the righteous. At the head of the Chinwad bridge, the holy bridge made by Mazda, they ask for their spirits and souls the reward for the worldly goods which they gave away here below.

(Avesta, Videvdad 19:28–29)

[And] as regards [the bird] Karshipt one says, “It knew how to articulate words, and [it] carried and propagated the Revelation into the enclosure prepared by Jam {Jamshed}; and there they utter the Avesta in the language of birds.”

(Iranian Bundahishn 24:25)”

https://www.quora.com/Is-Persian-Allfather-Awtin-Abtin-the-same-as-Germanic-Allfather-Odin-Is-Awtins-wife-Franak-the-same-Odins-wife-Frigg-Is-Awtins-son-grandson-Tur-the-same-Odins-son-Thor

Post was made by a user called Zartusht Ashavan.